Introduction

Robert Ellis 0:00

Hi, my name's Rob Ellis and I'm Peter Chi, and we're from Baptist Financial Services Australia, or you can call it BFS. What gets us out of bed and going to work in the morning is actually partly harvesting stories, stories of ministry doing well. And in order for ministries to do well, we need a lot of support, good resources and, most of all, good relationships, good connections to others who are learning. So, really, our conviction about this podcast series, aithful Foundations, is to use some of the stories introduced to you, to the people that we've met, who we know are going to share actionable insights and encouraging experiences of their journey in mission. Good ministry doesn't just arrive overnight. It's built on Faithful Foundations. So you'll enjoy the journey with us on the shore. And for our first chapter, our first podcast, we've picked a real cracker.

Robert Ellis 0:50

Who is it? Peter?

Peter Chi 0:51

We've got Ken Kamau today, he is the team leader of church multiplication at the Baptist Association of New South Wales. Ken is a great guy. He and I do quite a bit of work together, so thank you so much for joining us, really appreciate you spending some time with us here today and I can't wait to get some really great insights about what you do and how churches have been impacted here in New South Wales by the leadership and the work that you do, Ken, awesome, thank you. Thank you for having me here. Great, so why don't you tell us a little bit about yourself, mate?

Ken Kamau 1:27

Okay, yeah, just as you've mentioned. So my role is leading the team around multiplication and seeing new congregations started and those that are struggling revived. We do this across New South Wales and the ACT and work with an amazing team here at the head office, but also with what we call regional multiplication facilitators. These would be pastors who are based out in our regions one of our nine regions and they're just the people on the ground. They help us connect with the church planters on the ground.

Peter Chi 2:02

Wow. So how did you get started? What's your background?

Ken Kamau 2:07

So I'm originally from Nairobi, Kenya. Part of what was then Nairobi Chapel still is Nairobi Chapel, and how my journey started is quite interesting. I was in transition between two churches, just about to get married, and I told my wife, hey, I think after the wedding we need to go, we need to transition out of the church we were in because my father-in-law was a pastor there and we're like, yeah, but I was very clear about the shift I was about to make. There's some things that were very clear in my heart. One I actually wanted to be part of something big. I wanted to be part of a vision that captured me and was like, yeah, I want to be part of this.

Ken Kamau 2:46

So it just happened that two things happened. Firstly, I was going to preach at chapel Every fourth year. I had to preach at chapel before they graduated, so I was preaching at chapel. My friend was going to preach at chapel but it was unwell. So he asked me to sort of swap places with him, and it just happened that he had applied for a job with Nairobi Chapel and that Wednesday they were coming to hear him preach, but he was unwell. So they came and I was the one preaching and so I did a sermon.

Ken Kamau 3:18

I didn't know about that, but they were like, hey, would you consider coming to Nairobi Chapel? I'm like, okay, let me think about it. And I said what I'll do is I'll go for a Sunday service. The Sunday I went for service was a Sunday that Bishop Oscar was sharing the vision of what was called then the 2020 vision, which was to see 200 churches planted by 2020. This was in 2004. Wow, and in the moment I was like that captured me, like I want to be part of this. And so, yeah, transitioned out, finished, graduated and got hired as a youth pastor for Nairobi Chapel and that was the beginning of my journey.

Peter Chi 3:56

That was the beginning of your journey. Yeah, it's kind of funny because your first vision that you followed was it 200 churches? Yeah, by 2020. What's the vision now that you're following?

Ken Kamau 4:11

Yeah it's like 1,000 healthy churches. It just gets bigger and bigger

Peter Chi 4:15

Tell me, say how did you get involved with the Baptist Association in New South Wales and particularly around this vision of 1,000 healthy churches by 2025?

Ken Kamau 4:24

In a generation 2050, let's say 2050. So, yeah, so when I came to Australia, it just happened to align really well with where the Baptists were in terms of church planting, and it's something I'm passionate about, something I've done led both at team level just as a member of a church planting team and to where I was part of a core team, to where I've led a church plant. So it just aligned really well that the passion and the gifting fitted what was needed then. So I joined Jamie's team as what's a multiplication facilitator, but I was also pastoring a local church in Earlwood, actually taking them through a revitalisation, and so the journey began just there aligning of vision, passions and giftings so good.

Robert Ellis 5:16

So, Ken, in terms of the journey for a church to be established as a plant, obviously we recognise there are all sorts of shapes and sizes and styles of church plants. But from your experience.

Strategies for Church Planting

Ken Kamau 5:32

What do you see as the really key steps in establishing a church plant? Well, a few things. One I have come to accept the fact that church planting doesn't have a what's the word I'll call it cheat code. There is no formalized structure. That's because I've come to accept that God writes every story very different, and that's something that's taken a couple of years. So I've gone through a season of trying to create a here's, a step-by-step, and it hasn't worked. And so what I've learned are the principles that work in any situation. And so I think, first and foremost for us as an individual, for all the churches that have been planted that have sort of gone to grow and to be stable and even multiply, it's a lot is hinged on the leader, their response to God's call on their life, and that's a principle. Whether it's a simple church or a larger church, whatever it is, that's one of the key things that's been there.

Ken Kamau 6:35

The next has been just a clarity of process. They go through Regardless of what you're planting. One of the key things is just a clarity of process, and that's what's really helped the Baptist Association. I would say get ahead of the game. Just the clarity of process, because church planting is really messy and it keeps changing. You need some stabilising force or some stabilising thing, and the process what we call our discernment process has been key. Is that

Robert Ellis 7:04

Yeah, that's super helpful. So I guess church plants share some features of any start-up. Yeah, they're not a business, but they're trying to get a foothold and, as you say, navigate quite a lot of complexity. How do you help a group, whoever they are, navigate those initial challenges of getting established as a church player?

Ken Kamau 7:31

A few things. First, practically one of the things we ask church planters to do within our movement is put together a mission plan and what the mission plan does. It helps the church planter and his team crystallise the vision and actually think through what. What does this look like when it's done? And that's really important because church planters, most, are very what's the word? Entrepreneurial. So they and I being one, understand that coming from, and so every day think about it. This is someone who's passionate about it, invested in it, emotionally, mentally, spiritually, and they are thinking how this can best work. So every day they'll have a new idea of what they could do, and it can be really exciting for those that are entrepreneurial and that, but really frustrating for a core team that wants stability and direction. And so what the mission plan does it helps bridge that gap, and so that's a key factor. If a church plant is going to go through the initial stages, it has to have a clear mission plan, and we help churches write that. So same thing like a business plan, but just clarity of like we're going to do this, want to see this happen, these are the steps we're going to take.

Ken Kamau 8:52

Example a church plan will say we're going to reach this community for Jesus. Amen, I agree with you reach out for Jesus. So ask them all right, how are you going to reach out? What are the actual things you do? And as you drill down, you realize many of them have actually not thought about it critically. So I say, when you go to your core team meeting and tell them we're going to reach this suburb for Jesus, you actually need to go with something. Hey guys, here are the ways we can do this. We're going to do a barbecue. We're going to do this. We're going to do a barbecue. We're going to do this. We're going to do this. We're going to do this. At this time, it's going to cost us this. And so those things that church planters don't really like very much most of them not all of them, but most of them like yeah.

Robert Ellis 9:33

Yeah, making it concrete. Apart from the ministry plan, which is obviously just incredibly important, are there other resources or tools that help church planting in those initial stages?

Ken Kamau 9:46

Yes. So we have something we call, in partnership with Morling, we do Sent Course. This is just a course that helps bring just a sense of clarity around theology and leadership and just equipping. That's a really big part. The other thing is the coaching. We provide coaching. We actually subsidise the coaching for every church planter. So with the mission plan, when they get approved, if you leave it to them, we've seen that a huge chunk of them don't follow through. So we actually say you need someone's external voice to actually keep you on track, that you can be accountable to, and we can actually talk to an independent person and say, hey, is this person on track? So that's actually reduced or increased our retention. We have fewer churches closing because of things like coaching. The numbers are there, the stats are there. There's clear evidence from when we've done coaching and when we've not done coaching.

Robert Ellis 10:44

The retention.

Ken Kamau 10:44

I think right now we're at 86% or something.

Robert Ellis 10:46

Wow.

Ken Kamau 10:47

Just because of just that one element, someone is holding you accountable.

Robert Ellis 10:51

Yeah, and I imagine coaching also helps with a sense of health for that leader that they're being sustained as well.

Peter Chi 10:56

Yeah, yeah.

Robert Ellis 10:57

Yeah, fabulous. Yeah, specific strategies that church leaders might find useful when they're seeking to plant a church. So you've talked about having a clear plan, having a leader who senses a call. Are there other things that a church that's contemplating this needs to think through as a leadership, or things they don't do, or don't do that they should be thinking about.

Ken Kamau 11:23

Yeah, I could answer both. Let me start with the things that you practical things, things learned, lessons learned. First is that one of the biggest lesson is the ability or the tenacity to handle disappointment. You've got to cultivate that muscle because of a few things. Firstly, when you step out to plant a church, you've got to always remember that you are thinking about this day and night. You're the church planter. Other people are not as engaged or invested as you are, but they're committed. So you may want to move really fast and want to do stuff, but you just get the frustration of they're not moving as fast. And that's the one thing we always get with church planters like, oh, my core team is not doing this is not doing this.

Ken Kamau 12:13

So I say you've got to have the muscle and the ability to handle disappointment well and realize that they still love Jesus, they're still going to heaven, but they're just not where you're at. So that's the first thing, because that really wipes out a lot of people. They feel a sense of despair, a sense of this is not working, people are not committed to it. People are you just have. I've learned that the hard way. That's a really big thing. That's a really big thing. I think the second thing is in regards to just being able to build a core team wisely. Remember, when people join a core team, I've seen different groups of people join. They're those who join the core team because they're committed to you, not really to the vision. They just love you as a leader and they'll follow you. All right. Those who joined because they generally are looking for something else and they've prayed and say God has put them in this space. There's some who are just joining there because it's, hey, let's do this Like they have no level of commitment. The depth of commitment varies. So, having an understanding because the challenge is with a core team, if you treat everyone the same and not realize at the level of which they are committed to the vision, you also start dealing with disappointment. Why do they not see the need that's there. And so I say, practically, when you're building a core team, I say start from the center, have a few people that are committed to it and who you actually have clear conversation with.

Ken Kamau 13:47

So what I did is I met a few families that say we are planting a church or revitalizing this church, Would you commit to be part of it for the next two years? And commitment looks like this You're there every Sunday. You're giving towards the church we serve. We do. You know that was a high stake commitment. And in one of the churches we as a group agreed, rather than tithing 10%, we'd try and tithe 15% by income, just for the period of two years. That's a conversation you have with people who are very close to you. Then you had other people who were there and I said, hey, as long as God brings you here, just be present, help us build momentum and all that.

Ken Kamau 14:23

And there was a group of people. I told them hey, bill, bill, join us for prayer. When we have vision nights, come for prayer. I did not expect them to serve, I didn't talk to them about giving. And so for the first two years I knew I had seven, eight families that were committed to it and after the two years they knew they had a way out. Because that's the other thing people fear committing because there's no way out. I told them in two years we sat again for dinner and said who wants to stay, who wants to go? A lot of them stayed. Two families said we feel our time is done. We want to go support another church plan.

Peter Chi 14:53

I said okay, yeah, fabulous. It sounds like a lot of different chat groups you're managing. Yeah, what do you see in other states that are doing in regards to church planting that you think, wow, that's really cool stuff. This could really be the future of church planting. What are some trends you're picking up? Oh, trends.

Diversity and Inclusion

Ken Kamau 15:14

I think one of the things is around revitalization and I think just last week I was with a group of different leaders within our state, our movement, and there are some churches that, just because of where they're at, they're really engaged and have clear strategies and vision around revitalizing churches and I think there's a lot to learn from there. They've thought through consultancy, they've thought through just a lot that I say like that's worth. The other one is around engaging of our CALD churches. I think some of our states have done a really good job in engaging the ever-growing ethnic uh churches, uh, and they're doing a really good job and so I'm like this is awesome. Somehow they've been able to navigate, bringing in people, different voices and still maintaining the vision, and so I think that's some. I think we're doing a great job. But I I think the other states that are way ahead of us, I think one of them I can't remember if it's Victoria which one has like of the cult churches, I think it makes up 60 or 70% of them.

Peter Chi 16:14

Oh, it's Victoria, it's Victoria, yeah.

Ken Kamau 16:16

So they're definitely shaping the way church planting is done.

Peter Chi 16:21

I mean, as a country, we are becoming increasingly multicultural. There are definitely more and more people coming in who are Christian or are Christian in their home countries and bringing that version of their Christianity here. So I just wanted to touch into the way in which you guys work with the Cowed Churches. How do you help them and what are their needs compared to, say, a church that has already been planted here or a church that is fairly rooted in Australian culture?

Ken Kamau 17:04

I think one of the key things is we try and create a space where their voices can be heard. That's really important for us. I think everyone who comes in brings something, and not everything that is brought is helpful. So just the ability to say, okay, what are you bringing into the voice of church planting? That is helpful.

Ken Kamau 17:25

One, two key elements I've seen is the element of fervent prayer. A lot of our church plants that are more ethnic. My journey with them has there's a sense of just a reliance on god, a commitment to fervent prayer, well beyond what I've seen in other local churches, which is really valuable. You go to a prayer meeting for a church plant. You're like, oh my goodness, there's a real sense of we need to trust in God for this to happen and we're going to pray. That's one thing. The second thing is just the ability to see things that are obvious to those who've been here for a long time, see opportunities that are really, really obvious and because you've been in a space for very long, things become blurred for you. And then someone comes in like I didn't thought of that and so what are some examples?

Ken Kamau 18:19

For example, one of our church plants just realized that Thursday's late night shopping. Yeah, we all know that, and people spend a lot of time in the food courts. I just realized that Thursday is late night shopping. Yeah, we all know that, and people spend a lot of time in the food courts, and so what they've done is they've decided on Thursday nights, I think, they have dinner together and then they go to the food courts and they just want to hang out with people and give out fries and pray with them, and they've seen people come because they realize that's when most people take their kids out for a meal and after or whatever.

Ken Kamau 18:48

I'm like. I've always thought known about late night shopping. I didn't see it as a mission opportunity, so it's something like that. Um, yeah, so they see things that are that are different, and they're able to walk in spaces that are a bit more. Um, it's very easy. I've've seen as a migrant, I found it very easy to walk in very many spaces. There's a sense of which you understand my story, you understand my journey and you just have that permission, and so it's an amazing strategy of guys I've been doing. Another one is they've realized that different ethnic groups love some sports like volleyball or something, and this one of the guys just started a volleyball club just in Parramatta and just starts and within a bit of time he has 20, 30 people coming to play. Wow, and he uses, he says we're going to break for prayer before the next game and people there he'll share take two minutes to share the gospel in two minutes. This is why I do this and like, oh, that's great.

Peter Chi 19:50

There's just that commitment to prayer and an ability to see opportunities that we might not be able to see them as existing churches. Yeah, wow, I mean, what about food? As a migrant myself, I mean, that's a big part of it, guys. If you're looking at Ken right now, he's just nodding his head.

Ken Kamau 20:05

Oh, yeah, yeah, food ministries is that a thing? Awesome stuff like that's one of the ways we, when I was doing revitalization, one of the things we did because the church was multicultural I would say, hey, we're gonna have a combined service and we're gonna have foods from different, from five different nations. Invite your friends. Yep, guys will not come for service, but they'll come for the morning tea, and if I could get them through the door, that's enough for a relationship and I was. One of the key elements was I was in a Greek dominant area and they'll bring food and, like, they bring food, and so I can attribute a bit of our growth to just the food ministry.

Peter Chi 20:43

Fantastic, can't go wrong. That's the main takeaway. Guys, just the food ministry Fantastic, can't go wrong. That's the main takeaway guys. Start a food ministry.

Generating Growth and Engaging Community

Robert Ellis 20:49

Just to change gear in terms of what really helps a church plant. Sometimes there are some things that quietly happen in the background that are really vital, and I'd like to touch on governance just for a few moments. Sometimes it's seen as a break and the entrepreneurial spirit is the accelerator. I think that's a bit moments. Sometimes that's seen as a break and the entrepreneurial spirit is the accelerator. I think that's a bit simplistic, but I'm wondering why what you've seen is helpful for church plants around governance, that sort of supportive structure, that accountability that's put in place.

Ken Kamau 21:22

Yeah, that's been one of our biggest learning curves, honestly, Rob, for a few reasons. One is, remember, church plants go through different phases. The initial phase that is high speed. You want decisions made quickly, um, it's. It's very entrepreneurial, um has very, very light on governance. It's very high on trust, right, and the vision bearer is the church planter has the, let's say, the most amplified voice within the year or two of a church plant once it starts to settle.

Ken Kamau 21:57

Some church planters still want to maintain that pace of high-speed decisions. Rest on them, trust. But I always tell them, if the church plant is growing, there are people who come who don't have the history that the core team has and therefore you need a document that governs, or structures that govern, everyone, and so it's hard work. Some are pretty easy to do that, but some believe the growth they're experiencing, anything you put around that is hindering the growth. But we also say God has called us to be good stewards of not only his people but the resources, and for us to do that we need constitutions, we need policies around this.

Ken Kamau 22:43

So, honestly, it's something we're still navigating with a lot of our church planters, but for those, if you're going to be under the Baptist Association. That's a non-negotiable. You actually do have to have good governance structure, and so we try and do trainings and stuff like that and then just work one-on-one with people. But to answer your question, basically for a church plant we try and provide basic constitutions so they don't have to think through them. We have what we call a starter park that actually takes you through the basic steps of actually registering an AB and getting an ACNC those things that church plants don't want to think through them. We have what we call a starter park that actually takes you through the basic steps of actually registering an AB and getting an AC those things that church planters don't want to think about. But I tell them, you're responsible for it at this point, but we will provide the pathway for you.

Robert Ellis 23:28

So I don't know if that's helpful. No, thank you.

Peter Chi 23:31

No, that is. I think you're right. When you are entrepreneurial, there is this desire to move really, really quickly, and when the opportunity is fresh, as a church planter, the last thing you think about is well, what do I need to upload to this website? To make sure, not very important to me right now, because there's souls to be saved. So does this tie into that process that you were talking about, about giving these planters a sense of consistency throughout the journey?

Ken Kamau 23:59

Well, this comes in a bit later.

Ken Kamau 24:02

So for the first three years they're a new start church plant we provide all the resources we can to get them moving up and ensuring that things are running.

Ken Kamau 24:12

But once a church starts meeting on a regular basis, they actually now need governance documents and structures. And that's where we lean on to people like BFS. We lean on ministries like Balance Ministries, which has been a big blessing for our movement. Let me just give them a shout, because a lot of our churches have struggled to just like you realize that how hard it is to so planters are great at leading people, realize that how hard it is to so planters are great at leading people. Most of them are not so well equipped to lead the organizational part of it, and so having ministries like BFS, balanced ministries, has just been a blessing, and a lot of church planters we recommend that they do that, and you've seen just the relief on someone like, oh my God, someone has taken this off me and I can't focus on what God has called me to do, which is be out there, do this, but there's still stewardship, yeah.

Robert Ellis 25:06

Fabulous. So let's put our focus on the future, with that fantastic vision to 2050. And just doing the sums and working out how old I'll be when we get there and it was scary, so I won't go there anymore and working out how old I'll be when we get there and it was scary, so I won't go there anymore but just thinking about personally for you, ken, compelled by that vision, and you have the calling on your own life, what are your personal hopes and aspirations around what you want to see happen?

Ken Kamau 25:33

I think I would love to see our churches embrace a culture of multiplication, a selfless culture of multiplication, to a point where we don't really care whose name is on the door, as long as Christ has preached the gospel, it's gospel centered and that would be a great thing. That's the only way we'll get to 1,000 healthy churches if we move from addition to just multiplication. So I think of just a standard local Baptist church with 50, 60 members, a solo pastor somewhere in a suburb, barely just making budget how can that church be part of the movement? And I think if churches could embrace any form of responsibility to the vision, say, hey, we will provide a space for people to come and get equipped. We might not be able to send people, but we'll provide a space. Hey, we will put into our budget a 1% where every year we'll say $1,000 will go towards supporting a church plan in some way, those small things count.

Ken Kamau 26:43

And so my prayer, Rob, is that our whole movement, from our biggest churches to that church in the corner somewhere in the suburb, would embrace this vision. Say we will be part of creating a culture of multiplication. I am convinced and convicted that there are many out there whose heel need to hear the gospel and I still am convicted that there are many out there who still need to hear the gospel. And I still am convicted that the local church is the most effective way to shepherd communities, preach the gospel and disciple people, and that's why I do this. That's why I do this.

Robert Ellis 27:09

Thanks Ken.

Ken Kamau 27:10

Amazing.

Peter Chi 27:11

Yep Well, thank you so much for your time, Ken. It's been a pleasure to hear your insights, your thoughts and your history. You clearly have the anointing of God in you to plant churches and your passion is just infectious. It's just such a great time to hear you Thank you so much for your time Thanks.

Robert Ellis 27:30

Thanks Ken.

Peter Chi 27:30

Wonderful Thanks, Rob.